I'm almost blown away by the sort of glorified certainty of yours that "Yes, Michael is the modernized Valmont". I have to ask myself and you as well how you could or dare get so certain about that? -imagist(:)) @美国华人论坛:美国枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of USA

To you, which one is 英雄, and which one is 奸雄, De Valmont and Michael?

Do not even try to say something like "I told you so."

well, the ideal villain is one and the same with the ideal hero. they are a perpetual fixture in literature. in other -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-19 {205} (#10748213@0)

words, whatever we want our man to be or to become, we project it into our dear villain with the same zeal we do with our hero. Yes, Michael is the modernized Valmont wearing three piece suits with no wig.

This might be the most intriguing part to me. It’s understandable that we SHALL or SHOULD not judge a person and /or villain on winning or losing, yet, what’s indeed the authentic manifestation of a hero supposed to be ? -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 {95} (#10748794@0)
If we shall or should NOT judge De Valmont on winning or losing, what shall or should we upon?

In Chinese we distinguish 英雄 from 奸雄 by merely one small character, and quite often the distinction just remains there. for that reason we always say "成者王侯败者贼". -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10748886@0)

I'm almost blown away by the sort of glorified certainty of yours that "Yes, Michael is the modernized Valmont". I have to ask myself and you as well how you could or dare get so certain about that? -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 {295} (#10748997@0)
To you, which one is 英雄, and which one is 奸雄, De Valmont and Michael?

Do not even try to say something like "I told you so."

as I said it is just my reading. quite often villain and hero are one and the same. enormous phenomena occur in our life with no distinct categorization of good or evil, including human beings. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10749148@0)

as I said = I told you so ?^_^ Give me one example that is NOT "one and the same", if you could come up with one. -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 (#10749292@0)

"as I said" just indicates I said something before. it is different from "I told you so". Salieri in movie Amadeus might be an example for not "one and the same". however, I also think he is an evil figure rather than a genuine villain. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10749373@0)

Gee, I'm trying to differentiate as I said from I told you so, and still on my way to accomplish the goal for that matter. Yet again, here comes an evil figure and a genuine villain. -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 {84} (#10749387@0)
Any essential distinctive line between an EVIL FIGURE and a GENUINE VILLAIN, anyway?

I seldom use "I told you so" because I always feel it sounds arrogant and egotistic. "as I said", on the other hand, is more objective and laid back. I think an evil figure lacks the conflict or inner struggle we witness in those genuine villains. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10749527@0)

I perhaps have to let go of the difference between your perspectives and mine upon Michael and Salieri. To me, Michael is an evil figure based on your definition of what an evil figure is supposed to be, -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 {429} (#10749761@0)
yet, Salieri a genuine villain.

I'm not sure about your make of Amadeus, which, to me, is one of the most catastrophically hurtful movies I myself have ever seen. I saw it once, and only once, perhaps forever once, and I could not persuade myself to see it for the second time.

Just too painful to even have a thought upon the possibility that I could have myself face Amadeus without be devastated AGAIN.

Why is that?

that is perfectly fine. we all have our own readings. that is the fun of it. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10749922@0)

Your make of Amadeus? How many times have you seen it? -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 (#10749961@0)

Quite a few times. not so much of it being such an exceptional movie, simply because I like Mozart's music. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10750067@0)

Excuse me. NOT? NOT so much of an exceptional movie? Have a look at the descriptions I just quoted for ya from Wiki, re-organize your thoughts, and then tell me if you still perceive it as NOT so much exceptional. -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 {412} (#10750107@0)
The film was nominated for 53 awards and received 40, which included eight Academy Awards (including Best Picture), four BAFTA Awards, four Golden Globes, and a Directors Guild of America (DGA) award. As of 2016, it is the most recent film to have more than one nomination in the Academy Award for Best Actor category. In 1998, the American Film Institute ranked Amadeus 53rd on its 100 Years... 100 Movies list.

that is very true. however, I don't base my like or dislike of certain movie by reading the publications of the Academy. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10750224@0)

What is the more or most exceptional movie in your default mind? Do not tell me that it's Godfather, ^_^ just for the Godfather's sake. -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 (#10750253@0)

there are quite a few. Bugsy, Once Upon A Time in America, The Firm, Doctor Zhivago, Das Boot, GoodFellas, etc. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10750352@0)

Can you please tell me who is the Godfather in this group? Mind ya, your answer to this question may reveal something that has to be revealed. lol -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 {65} (#10750410@0)

they look like a close-knitted mob but I could not figure out who is qualified to be the Godfather, not even the one closest to the water. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10750518@0)

Water? Where is the WATER? Here you go, something for you to have as the lunch. Take the lunch and recharge whatever you need to recharge, and after that, let us know your final thoughts upon where the WATER is. Scary, indeed. -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 {425} (#10750680@0) +1
Lunch
F.S Flint

FRAIL beauty,
green, gold and incandescent whiteness,
narcissi, daffodils,
you have brought me Spring and longing,
wistfulness,
in your irradiance.

Therefore, I sit here
among the people,
dreaming,
and my heart arches
with all the hawthorn blossom,
the bees humming,
the light wind upon the poplars,
and your warmth and your love
and your eyes . . .
they smile and know me.

sorry, my fault. meant to say wayside but somehow got water instead. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10750735@0)

Absolutely your fault, and you have to do something to redeem yourself. One of the choices might be to share with us your true answer to the question as follows, -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 {256} (#10750927@0)
If a woman unfortunately falls in love with a villain, a genuine one, what is she supposed to do to redeem herself?

Do not even try to say something like " Turn herself into a villain, and eventually get to the One ( villain ) on one (villain) finale."

the answer is so simple that I really did not have to think about it. there is no escape, and no point of return, therefore no redeem at all, if a woman, unfortunately, falls in love with a villain, and a genuine one - to be exact. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10750981@0)

Which means she has no choice but to turn herself into a villain and lives happily or unhappily ever after? If Kate knew Michael was a villain, would she get married to him? Or if ...., would De Tourvel be the victim of De Valmont? -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 (#10751010@0)

she has not choice and therefore she can't turn (or not turn) herself into anything. She is doomed because a genuine villain is a vampire who sucks away the very essence of your soul. -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 (#10751097@0)

Both Kate and De Tourvel are NOT villains, yet they have no choice but to be consumed by two outstanding villains as you have defined, Michael and De Valmont. Does that mean male villains won't fall in love with female villains or what? -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 (#10751161@0)

If not, why not? If yes, why yes? -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 (#10751184@0)
Both Kate and De Tourvel fall for villains with their eyes wide-open simply because as exceptional women they are able to perceive and appreciate the uniqueness (in your word outstanding) of such villains (or heroes if you prefer that way). -the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber); 2017-4-20 {103} (#10751350@0)
male villain probably seldom fall for female villains because they share too much similarity with them.

Why am I not surprised by your answer at all? Weird, isn't it? -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 (#10751015@0)

53rd on its 100 Years... 100 Movies list, Mr. Dumb. -imagist(:)); 2017-4-20 (#10750109@0)

@USA

I'm almost blown away by the sort of glorified certainty of yours that "Yes, Michael is the modernized Valmont". I have to ask myself and you as well how you could or dare get so certain about that?

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