" I left China before I learned how to type Chinese characters into computers."...哥们儿，你离开中国那么多年去哪儿了？英文错误是不咋typical Chinese了，成非典型性了。 -fatbean(Knock'em dead) @美国华人论坛:美国枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of USA

工作学习 / English / hmmm, 关于几天前这里讨论新概念那个Jerry英语课的事情，我有个更好办法让大家公平的评论一下。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 {356} (#2802295@0)
这里有他做的讲座的录像，以及上期学员的成功经验的录像，大家看看就知道了。

讲座的： 75mb
seminar/nctol20060218_01.wmv

上期学员的： 40mb
/seminar/nctol20060218_03.wmv

至于 02.wmv ... nothing, 没有这个文件的说， sigh。

看完了，大家可以评价一下，有根有据，眼见为实，总比听道途说要强吧。
PS:最好用下载工具，比如 flashget 之类的，速度很快

这人是CBC吧？不会说中文。 -sosad(ROLIA森林的故事); 2006-2-23 (#2802304@0)

正宗的东北银～～～ 20岁的时候（2000年）才来加拿大的～～～ -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802309@0)
Agree! Obviously, it's 此地无银三百两! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-23 (#2802318@0)

我这里有他说普通话的video， and ..... 如果有必要，我可以弄来他国内的照片。我说话都是有真凭实据的哦，嘿嘿 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802328@0)

越看越象新概念的托。要做广告，请给sailor付费，否则被在这骗人了 -wang_yifu(yifu); 2006-2-23 (#2802367@0)

我放的是video, 大家看了再说，我只是拿事实说话罢了。看不惯的欢迎理直气壮的拍砖。至于广告方面，我相信rolia是不让放的。 sailor如若觉得不好，请直接删了吧。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802385@0)

那，你敢理直气壮地承认你就是新概念的人吗？ -wang_yifu(yifu); 2006-2-23 (#2802484@0)

唉，我还是rolia的人呢，义工没少做，哈 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802515@0)

soso -wince(MerryGoRound); 2006-2-23 {197} (#2802411@0)
english is a different language system from chinese.

and all he said is just a repeat of what my english teacher said before. maybe i was lucky to have a good english teacher when i was a kid.
我觉得对华人来说，跟jerry学是本末倒置。同胞们说还说不流利，发音再好有什么用？ -whatiheard(如是我闻); 2006-2-23 (#2802437@0)

嗯，这里有在中国说南方方言的吧？比如，长沙？如果有个外地人，来到长沙，能很快的说一段“流利”但是却不“地道”的长沙话，那么做为长沙人你会觉得如何？ -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 {353} (#2802469@0)
反过来说，如果那个外地人说的长沙话不怎么流利，但是却相当“地道”，那么作为长沙人你会觉得如何？

我是长沙人，我觉得如果一个外地人能很准确的把几个常用的长沙方言用得正确，我会觉得他说得好。如果他只是一味的”流利“而感觉不对的话，我只能say nothing了。

经典的长沙话 “哦该咯”，能准确的发音才是关键，其他的都不重要。我相信其他的方言也是这样。
嗯，听听意大利人说的流利的英语 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2802598@0)

笑死了 -51toronto(51Toronto); 2006-5-22 (#2985270@0)

英语的确不错. 但我讨厌其装腔做势的口头语, 好象就会那一句. 不好玩, -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-23 (#2802461@0)

如果你能去注意一下周边的本地人他们的口头语，你会发现那才是融入了这个地区的标志。就好像长沙人能装腔作势的说一句”哦该咯“，说得地道，那就算长沙人 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802472@0)

我周边的本地人和老外同事, 绝对没有这种不三不四的口头语. 你看到几个北京人整天把"丫" "傻B" 挂在嘴边? 你每讲一句话都要跟上一句”哦该咯“ ? 搞笑. -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-23 (#2802487@0)

嗯，没错，所以我不会和我的同事说“ 哦该咯”，能说这话的一定是很亲近的朋友。就好像北京人，如果是好朋友，我相信不少会说”丫“的吧，哈。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802497@0)

你的思维有点问题. 就象你自己所说的.在熟悉的人之间, 才可以用口头语. 上课时讲不妥吧. 我和你不熟悉. 我讲 " 车那 " 你会很高兴吗? 老外讲 " F**K " 你也很乐意吗? 哈! -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-23 (#2802513@0)

唉，我没办法了，说服不了你。 video大家都能看到，好不好每个人有各自的看法就行了，不需要一定说谁对谁错的，凡事都有两面的 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802524@0)

我根本就不想说服任何人, 既然你贴了广告, 就要有这个承受力. 否则, 早点睡吧. -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-23 (#2802531@0)

哦？那太好了。关于你上面提到的一个词的用法，这里有个很著名的flash，你可以看看先 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802539@0)

就这玩意? 我早几年就用了. 你还如获至宝? -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-23 (#2802549@0)

哦，我以为你不知道呢。我能这么快的找出来，也只是想说明， "我早几年就用了“ -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802556@0)

算了. 你这个"托" 或广告做到这里, 也该收场了. 已经达到效果了 -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-24 (#2802562@0)

我也这么觉得。。。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2802578@0)

Pretty much... whatsoever....you guys.....blah blah?? -lisa-sh(Lisa-SH); 2006-2-23 (#2802488@0)

好的当地人的英文没有口头语，即使是口语也一样，我觉得口头语我只想听懂，不想多说，不过现在混得说得也不少了，实在不觉得是什么进步，反而觉得王小二过年 -gnits(mafia); 2006-2-23 (#2802495@0)
thinking in english is a key point...but it takes time. -wince(MerryGoRound); 2006-2-23 (#2802534@0)

是的. 近来, 我做梦都是用英语的. 呵呵 -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-23 (#2802540@0)

这里是那个Jerry说中文的video(only 7mb)，内容是如何拿出时间来学英文，其理论根据是什么。我只是想说， Jerry可以说很好的英文，因为他20岁之前一直在中国大庆～～ -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802493@0)

oops, 我是想说， "Jerry可以说很好的中文“，刚才打错了... -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-23 (#2802499@0)
零散时间学英语是事半功倍的好方法。记忆曲线听说过的人应该很多啊。 -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803508@0)

There still room for jerry to improve his pronunciation. -iwantcar(EnjoyStudying); 2006-2-23 (#2802500@0)
他说过去的事用的净是现在时，发音倒是不错，可以唬唬人。 -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2802603@0)

没错，的确是这样的。他说他没认真学过语法之类的。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2802628@0)

时态之类的基本语法是很重要的，把过去的事说成现在时是口语里的大问题，很容易造成误会。本地长大的人不用想就自然用过去时，外来的人就不行，一说多就漏陷。 -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2802673@0)

That you don't know yet. In conversational English, local people do use present tense to say past things. There are lots of supprises you will find out later. Such as -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 {142} (#2802906@0)
locals say I didn't do nothing, (= I didn't do anything), "irregardless" (double negation, wrong in grammer). but people do say like that.

Double negation是经常出现的，早在中国上学时就接触很多了。可是时态方面，除非叙述一般性事实，过去发生要用过去时。有许多同胞就是因为不爱转过去时造成对方听不明白。 -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803415@0)

Not really. Locals do use present tense to say past things, of course it depends on the situations, not always. Go read some novels and listen more to chats, you'll find that out. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 {259} (#2803586@0)
And I mean double negation not actually meaning double negation, but still carry the meaning for single negation. I didn't do nothing actually means I didn't do anything. Did you get me? I didn't invent it, but you need to know to understand them properly.

一般以present tense 讲过去的事是向别人叙述过去的事, 有点象讲故事, 新闻描述也用. 如果两人直接对话, 交互性比较强, 过去的事就用past tense. -kittywhy(半个月亮爬上来爬上来); 2006-2-24 (#2803664@0)
这位同学你太有意思了。Double negation carries the meaning for single negation. 这种语法现象早不新鲜了，在中学就听外教讲过了。你认为很多人不知道么？你是到加拿大才知道？？拜托，别拿这个当例子了，都用烂了。 -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803667@0)
Narrative essay可以用现在时，这就是为什么有些故事写过去用现在时，如果你据此认为口语里过去的事可用现在讲，就太误导了，有点强词夺理。如果人们不需要过去时，这个时态早不存在了。 -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803700@0)

See you're trying to rip me off. I am not a grammer expert as you guys are. But hey, too many Chinese people are grammer savvy and speaking poor. Hold tight to your belief. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2803733@0)

Too many Chinese people are grammAr POOR and speaking POOR. Actually if one wants to communicate well, he has to be good at both. To give up grammar is not the right way. You were misleading people... -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803765@0)

I really love you. Relentless ... To say Chinese people are grammer poor, you're loosing grounds ... -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2803789@0)

I don;t mind... i am popular here, anyways. -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803826@0)

not -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803827@0)

OK, I see what's you're making in grammAr. That's where I got wrong in my TOEFL test (290 out of 300). I thought one week prep. (sorry for short of prep...) for TOEFL was good enough. I did and I was wrong. Got to learn grammar from grandma. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2803849@0)

You did better than me. I got 640 when I was 20. i couldn't do well in reading comprehension. I didnt have time for reading out of class. My vocabulary was very limitted then... -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803876@0)

Why do you keep changing your posts? Not confident in what you wrote? -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803893@0)

Because when I did proof read, I found some grammAr bugs. I am not a good writer on the fly. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2803898@0)

I know you want to sound smart and cool... but take it easy. No one is testing you... : ) -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803908@0)

Nice try, but you miss the point. Aren't you afraid of backlash? You want to sound smart and cool TOO. But I love smart and cool guys. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2803920@0)

You think too much la... You ARE smart and cool, Ok? -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803936@0)

Agree - Chinese people are grammAr POOR in both speaking and writing, but just not in TEST! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2804067@0)

口语班都爱同学弱化语法，把这当成窍门。事实上，有口音不要紧，只要句子对别人就能懂.关键的问题是不少人语言组织的很慢而且还错。 -chachacha(茉莉花); 2006-2-24 (#2803472@0)

up! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2803491@0)

Is he offering an accent reduction program? -365days(大话水缸); 2006-2-24 (#2802618@0)

他的课应该算accent reduction的吧。我映象很深的是，他在课上让大家说 "thank you"，然后一个个的进行发音矫正。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2802635@0)

这是典型的骗钱行为. 等一个一个矫正完, 这堂课也差不多了. 混时间. -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-24 (#2802808@0)

哦? 这可就奇怪了，上Jerry的课之前， Jerry可是已经告诉了大家，他会一个个的给大家做发音纠正的。而且上课的那些学员在交钱报名之前，就已经知道Jerry是使用这种方式教学的 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 {198} (#2803825@0)
这些都是大家知道的，不能算是骗钱吧？再说了，每个班都是限制人数的，为的就是能确保每个学生有足够的时间可以受到最佳的指导。

PS: 我说的话全部都有根据，而且都有video可以作证，绝对不是信口雌黄。

玛利亚有你这么好的员工, 她可高兴死了. 她一定会加你的工资的. -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-24 (#2803828@0)

任何事情都有两面的，大家意见不一样可以拿出说法来辩论一下，让其他人决定是好是坏。对于你说的我是托，是员工，要涨工资等等的，变成这种方式的争辩就没意义了嘛 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2803854@0)
She (he) may, no MUST be 玛利亚 ! Though 玛利亚 (路修了) has such good English class, why don't you just talk in English, and let's see what benefit you got from the class? -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2804074@0)

算了. 也是个混饭吃的. 放他一马吧. -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-24 (#2804080@0)

彼此彼此 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2804187@0)

我没上过他的课。至于我的英文，已经N年没有写过了。不过我觉得自己在简单的英语听说方面还凑合，需要学的地方很多。时间合适的时候我会去上他的课。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2804185@0)

This topic is going wild. Let's get back on track. To be fair, Jerry does represent a good example of success that inspires us to work towards our own success, regardless his English is perfect or not, -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 {1194} (#2802982@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛regardless if you want to take his classes or not. Can't we Chinese be just more generous and applauding for others' achievements than picking others flaws? No one is perfect. Don't you see most Canadians compliment others very often even for the smallest achievements? We got to learn that in order to be truely westernized. What I don't like about some people's comments is that they themselves cannot do that but they are so quick to pick others flaws first.

I not a big fan of Jerry, but a lot of what he said in his seminars does make sense to me, and I've personally benifited from the inspirations from his success, even though I didn't take his courses, now I am able to make very Canadian-like pronouciations, and I am still working towards perfection. From my experience, if you think pronounication is not important and you're OK to live with that kind of Chiglish pronouciation, you will not get into big trouble of course, but you will find yourself speaking the same kind of Chiglish five years from now, ten years from now. To put you in pespective, would that kind of Chiglish give you confidence to make a public presentation in front of a crowd of local Canadians?更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Totally agree! -alwayswithyou99(Egg Rolls); 2006-2-24 (#2803760@0)
完全同意。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2804550@0)

To be honest, Terry is a smart guy, but he's a terrible, terrible English teacher - he doesn't know how to teach at all. -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2802991@0)
original tip
-lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2802998@0)
Original TIP -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2803075@0)
so far, 新概念的owner must get sth: To make improve the class quality is more than making excuses and 骗人! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 {460} (#2803571@0)
whatever you make 托, 做free广告, all of them don't make any sense - the students feedbacks are most important!
The best way for 新概念, i guess, is to train the teacher or hire real language teacher, if you really want to help Chinese guys improve English, rather than just make money from them.
Otherwise, like singapura said: there is no need to spend any money (on any English class), nobody will never ever be cheated to 新概念English class any more!

That's a valid request from first hand experience, and I am on the same side as yours this time. I have no experience to comment on New Concept, and I typically are not a fan of money-making business. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2803627@0)

awesome! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2803636@0)

嗯，对于您这种立场坚定的人，我已经没有什么可以说的了。看了这个帖子和video的各位，你们自己可以判断。再次说一下，我上面所说的话，我都有各种video可以作证明，我是一个可以负责的"托“ -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2803834@0)

Do you have the videos of all the classes, at least my class? if you have, populate them! -Advertisement video is always most beautiful, and always 骗人, agree? -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 {815} (#2803968@0)
If you 立场坚定 ingnore my feedback, and 立场坚定 focus on people's wallets by cheating them to 新概念, the loser would 立场坚定 be yourself!

The one thing you don't understand is the differece between Jerry himself and Jerry's class. Jerry is so smart to speak good English, but he is just a terrible unskilled ENGLISH teacher. In fact, his occupation is not a teacher, and you can't force poeple to spend money to go to your school voluntarily.

As a 新概念staff or 托, you don't have any quality to get into education business - you don't take care of student's complaints and feedbacks, instead, just think about tp make money from people. If there are any ways I can sue you to refund my money from 新概念, I'll do it, but I won't - my money and time are just considered as my donation to you.

我也上过他的课,觉得意义不大,不值.现在差不多都忘了.其实如果一个人有毅力,什么都能办到.中国以前不是有个李阳也很牛吗?其实JERRY的课还是以商业为目的的,我们班上的同学好象都反应一般. -eagle_eye(茗香); 2006-2-24 {73} (#2804017@0)
都只读了一级,没有继续读中级班.而且有很多人都是通过新概念拿政府的钱在学的.

呵呵，用EI学，这个确是很多国人培训班的根本 -grassofjune(,); 2006-5-14 (#2969840@0)

如果我不 care feedback 的话我就不会在这里和你多说了。我当然有Jerry他每堂课的video，相信上个学期在Jerry班上上课的学员其中一部分人应该对我有映象。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 {412} (#2804211@0)
至于那些video，因为版权的问题，我不能拿出来给大家看，相信大家也能理解。至于你说的其他方面，我相信大家都能有自己的看法，我不需要多做解释。

总会有一部分人先富起来，股市总会有风险有涨有跌，学习方法多种多样总会有适合的和不适合的。所以理智一点，不要因为自己用的合适就让别人也这么做，也不要因为自己不合适就去阻止别人那么做。

我建议就是心平气和的说自己的话，让大家自己判断就行了，少一点无谓的争吵。

liar! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 {892} (#2804574@0)
1. you're lying: 我当然有Jerry他每堂课的video
- your staff told me that only Friday class was taped. actually no person wasn't in my class to tape. By the way, if somebody tapes without my permission, he'll get big trouble!

2. you're lying again: 如果我不 care feedback 的话我就不会在这里和你多说了-
- you said before: 嗯，对于您这种立场坚定的人，我已经没有什么可以说的了。 - this is the way you care feedback?

3. advice: the longer you play here, the more you lose.
- Money, and money from students, this is what you only care about. you don't wanna lose more, right?
here you see, not just myself have negtive feedback, other people do have - it's time for you to 理智一点, and 心平气和tell 玛利亚 about our feedbacks. It's really good for you and for 新概念!

4. agree: 我建议就是心平气和的说自己的话，让大家自己判断就行了，少一点无谓的争吵。

So far, one vote gives Jerry a thumbs down, another a thumbs up. Statistically, we're still heading nowhere. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2804520@0)

So far, two votes give Jerry thumbs down, 0 thumb up. Statistically, we're heading somewhere. Even more, I can see .... -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2804584@0)

Wait a second! Don't double count! Don't count in independents like eagle_eye(茗香). I am only counting in you and luciola(路修了). Fair enough? You two are like Liberals and Conservatives. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2804728@0)

No fair, and funny! - 路修了 said: 我没上过他的课, and 我是一个可以负责的"托“! According to your account rule, yifu, 如是我闻, 笑熬浆糊, EnjoyStudying, 茉莉花, and myself - now you head somewhere? -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 {571} (#2804809@0)
and you really don't know what 茗香 is talking about? even though they are Chinese words.
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我也上过他的课,觉得意义不大,不值.现在差不多都忘了.其实如果一个人有毅力,什么都能办到.中国以前不是有个李阳也很牛吗?其实JERRY的课还是以商业为目的的,我们班上的同学好象都反应一般.
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by eagle_eye (茗香) at 2006.2.24 17:01

都只读了一级,没有继续读中级班.而且有很多人都是通过新概念拿政府的钱在学的.

lovefuture 是大好人，讲实话，jerry 的课没有么用 -lisaliang(lisa); 2006-3-6 {220} (#2821760@0)
jerry 的课没有么用，我刚上过，大部分时间在课堂上干坐着，一对一纠正几个英标，其实有点口音没什么。大学教授，医院大夫有口音的多了，关键是熟悉自己专业方向的英语，能够向雇主连说带比划的推销自己，就能在加拿大立下足有发展。

我去听过jerry的公开课。实话实说，他的口语不错，但偶尔还是有口音。我觉得对于移民来讲，如何把自己的想法流利地表达出来最重要，只要别人听得懂有口音也没什么关系。我女儿的小学老师还有口音呢，人家当老师都20年了。 -ebusiness(每天进步多一些); 2006-2-24 (#2804032@0)

你的说法很典型.我们要寻找的是突破.不能让口语跟你孩子一样慢慢长.My god, I have to type English now. Too ... slow to type Chinese using Pinying. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 {204} (#2804065@0)
I wonder how you guys managed to type Chinese? Are you all using Pinying or other express methods? I left China before I learned how to type Chinese characters into computers. Hard to make up the lessons.

It's slow to type Chinese using Pinying for me too. I assume you've been in English country for at least 15 years - Since 1990, it starts to be very popular to learn how to type Chinese characters into computers! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2804084@0)

Sorry, I am not that an antique yet. I landed my feet in Canada in 2000. But I was living outside China earlier on where I was not using Chinese. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 (#2804490@0)

Your English is really good! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2804500@0)
智能双拼法，比拼音快一些，五笔死活记不住 -davidchencaro(david chen); 2006-2-24 (#2804993@0)

用紫光输入法，输入速度很快 -google2002(Google); 2006-2-24 (#2804099@0)
英语速成不一定非要没有口音。迅速提高自身的表达能力最重要，尤其是流利清楚地表达自己的想法和意见。只要发音正确，有口音别人也听得懂。 -ebusiness(每天进步多一些); 2006-2-24 (#2804150@0)

你说得没错。我相信在中国南方，只要大家都说普通话，哪怕有口音，对于交流来说也没有什么问题。但是如果能没有口音又可以那样流利的交流的话，感觉应该更好吧？ -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-24 (#2804564@0)

" I left China before I learned how to type Chinese characters into computers."...哥们儿，你离开中国那么多年去哪儿了？英文错误是不咋typical Chinese了，成非典型性了。 -fatbean(Knock'em dead); 2006-2-24 {1475} (#2804811@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛你应该好好多看看英文小说啥的把真正的英语水平提高起来，不能跟Jerry一个腔调，人家那是做生意的需要。

看了上面的那两个录像，典型的传销调调，前面那个女的说话的方式总让我想起我们厂门口拿个手提喇叭吆喝劣质毛衣的大姐。

平心而论，Jerry口音很不错，但有些overcompensate，如果每时每刻都象他那么说话，后槽牙的磨损估计会比较厉害。词汇也极其贫乏，两个video我都是拖着看的，就这样我每次拖到一个地方一撒手就听见他在说“ama～～～zing”，用的还是电视销售员的夸张发音。这些都不要紧，关键是一味强调发音，贬低语法纯粹是misleading。看看他教出来那俩徒弟，那语法错误犯的简直是惨不忍听啊。

都瞧不起语法，总说中国人语法好。典型的误区，中国人语法改错挺厉害，选择题很厉害。可是真正写起东西语法错误俯拾即是。

英语就是门语言。你只要坚持每天朗读一个小时，坐马桶上没事儿看看英文小说杂志，再找人帮忙改改比较大的发音错误，语言应付工作啥的绝对绰绰有余。而且这样提高的是各项英语能力。语言是一种现象，是逐渐形成的约定俗成的东西，不是坐着琢磨出来的，各种方式的臆猜想象都是浪费时间。坦白的讲， singapura 你写的很多东西我觉得就是想象出来的，过多的不定式，不必要的长句子，自己看着挺别致，其实读起来特别别扭。另外，咱精力有限，学英语还是先找本地受过教育的人学，那种I didn't do nothing的社会底层英语咱还是少模仿为妙。

俺也就是一新移民，英文也在非常费劲地一点点提高。但是觉得这样把一个简单道理神秘化实在是误导大众。
好像有个韩国人写过一本书，讲don't study English, learn English，我觉得这个提法比较有道理。

最后申明，跟谁都没有私仇，纯粹茶余饭后的学术讨论，如有冒犯多多担待，如果还不解恨，尽管抛砖。更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

有道理. 我中学的一个英语老师说过. 外语只要是中等智力的人都可以学好. 主要是毅力.外语只不过是一门工具. 我们已经在这个环境中了. 自己多模仿.多用功就可以了. 也"觉得这样把一个简单道理神秘化实在是误导大众。" -scottee(笑熬浆糊); 2006-2-24 (#2804889@0)
it's so good - 英语就是门语言. Jerry 把一个简单pronunciation神秘化, and make it in a very difficult way - 那是做生意的需要! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2804956@0)
I am convinced you must be a linguist. Nobody is undervaluing the importance of grammar. Don't study English, learn English. Let me take one step further: Don't learn English, use English. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-24 {193} (#2804958@0)
Why when somebody says pronunciation is important, you would think he is saying grammar is not important. Language is a natural skill, esp. speaking.

I am sleepy now. Good night, everybody!

how many thumbs now, buddy? -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-24 (#2804975@0)

国内上新概念是没办法，这里这么多条件环境就不可理解了。边用边学是硬道理。培养兴趣最重要，看片子不如听收音机，新闻，股票，交通信息之类的先听熟 -davidchencaro(david chen); 2006-2-24 (#2805006@0)
agree - 英语就是门语言. 但是觉得这样把一个简单道理神秘化实在是误导大众。 -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-25 (#2805018@0)
agree - 英语就是门语言. 但是觉得这样把一个简单道理神秘化实在是误导大众。 -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-25 (#2805020@0)

I really appreciate what you have said, lovefuture. -forrest_gump2222(阿飞); 2006-2-25 {172} (#2805085@0)
I totally agree with you about Jerry and new concept. If the way Jerry said woks, the new concept would already open a public Seminar for Jerryès student to persuade us.

Guess you guys have all figured out and buddy buddy with each other on shooting down people of difference. I don't want to talk you hardliners into anything. Got to get on with my life. Good luck! -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-25 (#2805163@0)
glad to help, and glad to share my first hand information to people for not wasting money and time to 上骗钱的新概念Jerry英语. 群众的眼睛是雪亮的: 路修了(托1, liar)+singapura(托2) = NOTHING!!! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-25 (#2805656@0)

极同意lovefuture, jerry 的课没有么用, -lisaliang(lisa); 2006-3-6 {227} (#2821771@0)
我刚上过，大部分时间在课堂上干坐着，他背几个重复了多遍的小故事，一对一纠正几个英标，其实有点口音没什么。大学教授，医院大夫有口音的多了，关键是熟悉自己专业方向的英语，能够向雇主连说带比划的推销自己，就能在加拿大立下足有发展。

I am convinced you must be a linguist. Nobody is undervaluing the importance of grammar. Don't study English, learn English. Let me take one step further: Don't just learn English, use English. -singapura(singapura); 2006-2-25 {736} (#2805162@0)
Your sound a lot like my school English teachers. Unfortunately even though I was an all-time excellent student in English, I walked out of school speaking barely a few English sentences in confidence. Now I can speak well, pronounce well after my own effort, though I do make mistakes here and there under the scrutiny of a linguist per say.

Let's face it. Wish your word of advice be heeded by people still in China. Chinese immigrants in the hot sea of language won't go back to your path of novel reading and hope to become a linguist someday. Listening to radios, watching TVs, talking to people in English, these are the effective avenues for our immigrants to get over the immediate language barriers in our day-to-day life.

其实Jerry英语不错的真正原因是, 他曾有一个本地女友住在一起, 而这一个秘密并没被列在他所谓的secret list中, 不知道这里这里的新概念的托敢不敢当面否认这点? -canadatrustcibc(易线); 2006-2-25 (#2805343@0)

原来是这样的。 -365days(大话水缸); 2006-2-25 (#2805356@0)
就跟那个什么哈佛女孩的经验里把最关键的部分-----NETWORKING 漏掉一样，蒙得一帮二傻子一愣一愣的，以为自己的孩子一样学样就也能上哈佛了。学英文的最好途径是找个本地男女朋友，肯定比什么JERRY强 -gnits(mafia); 2006-2-25 (#2805541@0)

我觉得一般人都不太愿意把自己成功的真正秘诀告诉别人。一句话，机遇好，运气好，就能达到目的。别的，都是瞎掰乎。 -365days(大话水缸); 2006-2-25 (#2805550@0)

说得对，几乎所有的人都最多把经验介绍到99%，漏掉的1%是点睛的关键之笔，所以我现在很少看成功经验，年轻的时候还看，现在俗了，即使看也经常从市场的角度：这小子说这个写这个是什么目的。少有人没目的地浪费自己的时间和笔墨了 -gnits(mafia); 2006-2-25 (#2805566@0)

况且从文学的角度讲，点睛之笔一出，所有悬念都消失殆尽，根本就没有写长篇的必要了 -gnits(mafia); 2006-2-25 (#2805569@0)
说得极是。我在水缸发贴求问读什么专业，除了lilyba外，大多跟我打哈哈。 -365days(大话水缸); 2006-2-25 (#2805588@0)

可是也不能为学英语就找本地的GF/BF，目的性也太明确了吧，还要想些其它办法。去University/College听课是一个不错的建议。 -choice(坎上人); 2006-3-2 (#2814594@0)

well, 我能确定的是，如果语言水平不够，应该找不到本地女友同居的吧？ -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-25 (#2805677@0)

这你就错了。我认识一个男国移，30不到，外貌不亚于Jerry，来了没多久就跟一当地白妞拍拖，白妞对他还动了真感情，如今他的英语真是突飞猛进。好啦，咱们这些歪瓜裂枣的泡不到洋妞的也想提高口语，甭想了！~~ -365days(大话水缸); 2006-2-25 (#2805696@0)

嗯，照您的观点，学英语得靠长相了？还得有些个什么天赋异禀才行吧？ -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-25 (#2805807@0)

呵呵，其实这倒真是我原来设想的情况 -grassofjune(,); 2006-5-14 (#2969800@0)

来到一个英语国家，还上什么二道的新概念英语，牙都笑掉了，到COLLEGE里随便选个管理方面整堂课都是侃的课，都比这个强 -gnits(mafia); 2006-2-25 (#2805580@0)

完全同意，如果时间不值钱的话。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-25 (#2805679@0)

路修了, such a LIAR!!! 群众的眼睛是雪亮的: 路修了(新概念的托1, liar)+singapura(新概念的托2) = NOTHING!!! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-2-25 {935} (#2805741@0)
1. you're lying: 我当然有Jerry他(Jerry)每堂课的video
- your staff told me that only Friday class was taped. actually nobody wasn't in my class to tape. By the way, if somebody tapes without my permission in Canada, he'll get big trouble!

2. you're lying again: 如果我不care feedback 的话我就不会在这里和你多说了-
- you said before: 嗯，对于您这种立场坚定的人，我已经没有什么可以说的了。 - this is the way you care feedback?

3. advice: the longer you play here, the more you lose.
- Money, and money from students, this is what you only care about. you don't wanna lose more, right?
here you see, not just myself have negtive feedback to Jerry's class, other people do have - it's time for you to 理智一点, and 心平气和tell 玛利亚 about our feedbacks. It's really good for you and for 新概念!

4. agree: 我建议就是心平气和的说自己的话，让大家自己判断就行了，少一点无谓的争吵。
- but you're still here to 争吵!

我当然不会跟您急的。我总是能不断的拿出东西来证明我说的东西是对的。正像您说我是托一样，我是个负责任的托，是有内涵，是有技术含量的。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-25 (#2805801@0)
lovefuture 大好人，讲实话，新概念是大骗子， -lisaliang(lisa); 2006-3-6 {209} (#2821788@0)
jerry 的课我刚上过，大部分时间在课堂上干坐着，一对一纠正几个英标，其实有点口音没什么。大学教授，医院大夫有口音的多了，关键是熟悉自己专业方向的英语，能够向雇主连说带比划的推销自己，就能在加拿大立下足有发展。

是新概念被Jerry骗了 -canadatrustcibc(易线); 2006-3-6 (#2822590@0)

新概念不用时间？我还真听不懂了，COLLEGE的课，白天的晚上的都有，单修的多修的都有，我从来都以为只有考TOEFL想拿高分才到华人学校突击，别的大可不必 -gnits(mafia); 2006-2-25 (#2805882@0)

当然需要时间，不过是一个量多量少的问题罢了。至于是不是”大可不必“，每个人都会有自己的决定吧。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-2-25 (#2805890@0)

嗯，那倒是，不过你花这么多功夫讨论这个不象是要努力提高英文，俺来头一年，因为很笨没有想到JERRY英语班，乖乖地在COLLEGE里听了几个月，是没功夫这么刷网的，看来JERRY班是能省下不少时间 -gnits(mafia); 2006-2-25 (#2805905@0)

这录像拍的怎么看起来像电视上那种偷拍传销那种阿..黑黑的....真搞笑.. -littlebears(此熊非彼熊); 2006-2-25 (#2805960@0)
他的英语不错。没有什么口音。如果他的方法适合一部分人，也很不错。 -simmersnake(步履无声); 2006-2-25 (#2806044@0)

再听听，发现他的英语还是有口音。不过已经和我差不多了。 -simmersnake(步履无声); 2006-2-25 (#2806099@0)

和我也有一拼。 -neversummer(neversummer); 2006-3-5 (#2820977@0)

我曾是Jerry英语班的学员,也感到他的教学方式也有待改进. 但我认为 -deltaforce(油子兵); 2006-3-1 {328} (#2813018@0)
英语发音一对一纠正是他的Level one课程的精华所在. 花点钱纠正几个对于中国人来说最容易发错的而且已发错了十几年的发音,是否值得我相信各人自有评判.况且这些音的发音错误会导致歧义,而不是口音问题那么简单.比如l,r,oo,oun等等.

退一步说, 就算他的方法只对一部分人有效,也是公德无量的一件事.我们可以再找别的方法去帮助其他人.总比相互挑刺强吧.

agree, there is no solution good for everyone. -simmersnake(步履无声); 2006-3-1 (#2813550@0)
同意。周六去听了他的公开课。对他的责任感不感苟同。他的方法真是我希望的------只希望有个比较还可以的发音，其他的都是可以通过工作什么来弥补的 -grassofjune(,); 2006-5-14 (#2969804@0)

去了Jerry的网站www.jerrystorm.net看了一下，发现课程内容都有下载，只是全部加密，无法听。那位能分享一下RAR文件的密码吗，PM我，谢谢。 -factiva(Dawn); 2006-3-2 {161} (#2814452@0)
只要一个文件就可以，看看到底如何。另外看到Jerry回答一位同学对Jerrystorm的质疑，有点意思。链接如下： http://www.jerrystorm.net/forum/read.php?tid=409&fpage=1

same here. please pm me the password too. -rightclick(依桃碧谷); 2006-3-2 (#2814818@0)

这里有Jerry本人回答一位同学对JerryStorm的质疑：http://www.jerrystorm.net/forum/read.php?tid=409&fpage=1 -factiva(Dawn); 2006-3-2 (#2814456@0)
英文说的再好在这儿有什么用？ -neversummer(neversummer); 2006-3-5 {473} (#2820945@0)
和口语相比听力更难提高，如果有人能够听的懂LAW AND ORDER里95％的台词，我认为这个人英语已经非常好了。至于口语要想说的和老外一样或者接近本地人的水平几乎是不可能的，即使你的老婆或者丈夫是老外也是一样。中文的思维方式用词方法和英文根本不一样。老外只不过认为你到这儿时间比较长了或者是在这儿出生的。你再怎么狂练也不会比当地人说的好的。其实英语够用就行，听的懂，自己想说的能够比较流畅的表达出来就行了。不要让英语成为自己的比较明显的短处，很多居心不良的当地人很容易就利用这个攻击你。

jerry 的课没有么用，我刚上过，大部分时间在课堂上干坐着，一对一纠正几个英标 -lisaliang(lisa); 2006-3-5 {220} (#2821634@0)
jerry 的课没有么用，我刚上过，大部分时间在课堂上干坐着，一对一纠正几个英标，其实有点口音没什么。大学教授，医院大夫有口音的多了，关键是熟悉自己专业方向的英语，能够向雇主连说带比划的推销自己，就能在加拿大立下足有发展。
you are right -simmersnake(步履无声之手中无剑); 2006-3-6 (#2821780@0)

看来这里很多都没听过jerry课，我上了，感觉进步很大，他的确是把发音的部分解释的很清楚。虽然要时间慢慢把这些养成自己的发音习惯还需要自己练习。从我上课后，公司同事感觉我发音进步很大，我自己也感觉不错。我花的时间比较多！ -greenmousepad(greenmousepad); 2006-3-8 (#2827765@0)

我想对大部分上课的学生来说，进步肯定是明显的，我们都录了音进行前后比较，其实我想jerry应该把一些学生的前后录音放在网站上，这样就可以给大家个直关的比较！我现在继续上他的part two！ -greenmousepad(greenmousepad); 2006-3-8 (#2827789@0)

My wife took the course, I can see the changes. But -bigpear(大鸭梨); 2006-3-10 {420} (#2832103@0)
But it's only for the pronunciation. If you would speak fluent English, you still have to work on your own. I would recommend people already speak good English to take this course. By good english, I meant you can freely express your feelings. You just want to kill the accent.

For those still struggling for getting words line up to come out of your mouth, I don't think this course is going to help a lot on that.

同意。让一个说还说不利索的人去改口音，实在是本末倒置。洋人也有类似的课程，价钱上差别就太大了。这个JERRY的英文讲的确实不错，没觉得有装腔做事。 -crystalcat(HappilyEverAfter); 2006-3-12 (#2835551@0)

听过了，加拿大口音有点像 -laurence(laurence); 2006-3-12 {294} (#2834533@0)
但是一听就是中国人讲的，纵然英文如我一般烂，也能听出来。
另外，这种的口音纠正课完全是骗钱，新移民口语最需要的是提高流利程度和正确性，而不是口音。不能正确表达自己的意思，口音再加拿大又如何。我讲的英文是标准中国口音，而我并不以此为耻，我能清楚表达自己的意思，为什么我要去改变我讲了几十年的口音。

越听到后面越不象话，牛吹大了 -laurence(laurence); 2006-3-12 {74} (#2834547@0)
就几个常用单词算是有点加拿大口音，其他的都是中式口音，就这样的也出来骗人。
If you don't like to make changes to your accent, it's fine. Speaking more native-like English does help others to understand you better and does help you to understand native English better. -singapura(singapura); 2006-3-12 (#2834861@0)

i don't problem understanding native speakers and they have no problem understading me. -laurence(laurence); 2006-3-12 {172} (#2835283@0)
I don't feel my accent would be a problem of communication. BTW, communication is more than speaking, so don't cheat other people with this so called "accent tranning."

争执该告一段落了。 -factiva(Dawn); 2006-3-12 {1984} (#2835428@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛首先，发音对理解和被理解有大的影响吗？没有，想想印巴人的发音就知道了，只有我们听着有点费劲。

其次，Jerry说的好不好？对于20岁才过来的人来讲，的确太好了，而且实在实在是不容易。

再其次，Jerry在新概念的口音班好不好？不好，就从课堂的规模来讲也不会达到预想的效果，10多人的口音纠正课程只是附和新概念的盈利目的，每个人得到的时间太少了，又没有后期跟进的服务。再看看学出来的人说的也实在实在不敢恭维。口音纠正的班课堂必须小，不能超过5个人。多收钱可以，培养出几个提高的令人信服的才是。

最好，我觉得大家实在应该感谢singapura牺牲个人时间帮助别人练习口语，实在难能可贵, 祝愿他/她的English Club能越办越好。虽然口音的确是另外一个层次的需求，对于新移民来讲，能自信流利的表达是第一位，但口音是重要的语言形象，工作，生活到了一定程度，对口音纠正的要求必然就有了。MBA毕业就业指导的时候有许多华人学生问，是不是华人毕业生只可能进入金融行业，而没有在北美做管理咨询的可能？得到的回答很简单：“我相信所有我们毕业生的能力 ... However, as management consulting firms, they need someone who can truely present the firms when talking with clients, not only by what they deliver ... ".口音是个门面呀。

所以别争了. 如果你觉得没有必要纠正口音，你是对的，因为你的圈子没有对你这样的要求。觉得必须纠正的，也是对的，因为你已经走到了这样一个路口，不论是求职还是晋升。对于Jerry在新概念的口音纠正班，一是要大幅度缩小课堂规模，最好是一对一纠正的clinic，3人左右。其次必须吸收那些已经能比较流利表达英语的人作为学生，一定要明确哪些人是你的培养对象，也必须要清楚你的方法不会适合所有的人，或任何阶段的人，不要把效果说的太绝对了。如果做不到这些，那么这个课堂只能是自毁名声，最后只是给新概念一个free ride 而已。

至于新概念，没有什么好坏的，就是个企业，赚钱而已。他的JOB Agent和虚假的背景推荐，帮了一些人，害了其他所有的人。比其他学校好的是，它能按时付给老师工资，所以留住了一些好的老师。

至于Maria，是一个忍辱负重的人，除了钱，其他很容易谈的来。谁跟她侃价她跟谁急，你要是转身要逃，她一定追你到电梯，最后在电梯门关闭的一霎那，给你1%的折扣。well，能说好坏吗？就是一个精打细算的人罢了。想想要是你自己的生意你能怎样？更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

这话很中肯，希望大家都看看 -laurence(laurence); 2006-3-12 (#2835536@0)
up! -lovefuture(the Brick); 2006-3-12 (#2835614@0)
说得没错。他的课程比较适合有点基础，对发音不太满意的。20人的班太大了 -grassofjune(,); 2006-5-14 (#2969813@0)

30 sec into his talk, I couold already hear his Chinese accent, when he said "every", "take", ... I would like to hear him talking at a conversational speed.......... -berg(伯格。冰山); 2006-3-12 (#2835548@0)

他正常的说话速度不是你听到的那样。为了能让学员听懂他所说的，他已经降低不少的语速了。 -luciola(路修了); 2006-3-14 (#2839965@0)

讲得快和讲得好没有任何关系 -simmersnake(步履无声之手中无剑); 2006-3-14 (#2840190@0)

是这样的，我但凡激动起来，讲太快，语病就多，没有时间去考虑组织和语法问题。所以快未必就好 -laurence(laurence); 2006-3-15 (#2840507@0)

My experience of Jerry's Class -jadejade(Jade); 2006-3-14 {682} (#2839181@0)
I have taken Jerry's class. I found that it is really helpful for me. Because I knew I have pronunciation problem and some sounds I could not even make. Therefore, I have tried so many ways to correct it, like talking a lot with Canadians, going to pronunciation classes, you name it. No conspicuous improvement. After I took Jerry's class, my Canadian friends told me that my pronunciation is much better than before. This is just my own experience. If you want to improve your pronunciation, and could not find a good way, why not go to his class in person, sit behind the classroom and find out by yourself. (there is no charge for the first class). That was what I did before.

这个是我见过最烂的托...今天注的册就上来唧唧歪歪................您不会是Maria吧??? -littlebears(此熊非彼熊); 2006-3-14 (#2840256@0)

说这个课好话的，主要是新慨念的员工和几个得了好处的人。 -lisaliang(lisa); 2006-5-14 {56} (#2968804@0)
说这个课好话的，主要是新慨念的员工和几个得了好处的人，。

哈哈哈哈，很年轻的骗子。学习英语没有任何捷径可走：唯一办法是死记硬背，多听多说。这小子很小的时候就在英语环境下长大，所以毫不稀奇。用简单的口语来否定我们英语水平的一切。可惜大家想走捷径，所以喜欢受骗交钱 -china_wei(站着说话不腰疼); 2006-5-14 (#2969238@0)

人在脆弱的情况下最容易受骗上当，大家都急着想学口语，想一口吃一个胖子，所以被唬得蒙头转向的，其实学习口语必须有语言环境和大量对话，再加上大量时间（几年以上），才有可能，被这样一个在这儿长大小孩子骗，原因是自欺欺人，呵呵 -china_wei(站着说话不腰疼); 2006-5-14 (#2969265@0)
朋友中有从大庆来的,人家单位雇佣大把老外教英文搞职工培训,小孩也跟着一起学, JERRY的背景决不普通 -cacross(DVP); 2006-5-14 (#2969789@0)

I suspected that too. In their generation, parents pay lots of attention to kids' English study. I know a kid who went to English corner led by a foreigner at the age of nine. Now it's become clear to me. -rightclick(依桃碧谷); 2006-5-15 (#2970411@0)

jerry最近好搞了个什么语言协会，不知道有跟政府要了多少钱？ -luciaz(nn); 2006-5-22 (#2984869@0)

@USA

" I left China before I learned how to type Chinese characters into computers."...哥们儿，你离开中国那么多年去哪儿了？英文错误是不咋typical Chinese了，成非典型性了。

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