Thank you -eric_2003(Wine Expert) @美国华人论坛:美国枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of USA

工作学习 / 外语学习 / H-E-L-L-O,anybody here, here,re... ? Mind doing a short translation exercise and sharing your inspiration? -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-13 {465} (#6985493@0)
I have been trying to translate it using few possible words without losing too much original meaning. But I am afraid that I am thinking in circle lately...

自我认字起，就很想将母亲苦难的一生写下来，却一直没得时间。时间久了，忘记了许多细节，却不敢去问，怕再度引起母亲的伤怀。所以趁现在还存有记忆，先做一个草记。
母亲一生，似乎从她出生前就已注定是磨难重重，满腔苦水，以泪洗面。她从未见过自己的父亲，他也没见过她。并非生离死别，而是因为做父亲的从来也没想见她。

一般的工作英语还能混混，您这已经上升到文学水平了，只能等高人来翻了。 -slowdownforrose(放慢脚步); 2011-10-14 (#6987382@0)

I am not looking for correct answers, because there is none. I am here calling for different writing styles and ideas because I am tired and sick of my own. If we have four or five different versions of translation, that would be fantastic. -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-14 (#6987693@0)
英文老师曾建议我用英文写博客以提高写作水平，可是我发现根本不灵，很多句子，中文写下来感情饱满，可英文总是干巴巴的几个词。怎么提高？除了读小说外。 -besideu(身边一破脑袋); 2011-10-16 (#6989444@0)

i've had the same question but now i think, personally, -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-16 {208} (#6989544@0)
that english doesn't have to (and can't) resemble chinese. chinese is a visual and artistically abstract language, while english is a logistic and analytical language (detailand precision).

just my $0.02

很有道理。有时候只顾着把话说得漂亮，反倒让人不知所云，不如简单明了一些。中文里词面背后的意思太多了。 -besideu(身边一破脑袋); 2011-10-17 (#6990917@0)

正是。。。此外，酒专家原（中）文的最大特点也在于此：言简意赅不罗嗦。 -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-17 (#6990931@0)

我也试着回答一下，听，说，读，写，听说是摆在最前面的，听说若没问题，能用本地常用语和人比较深的交流，再多看点，写应该不会干巴巴的。再不行，可以上上写作课，让专家指导一下。 -slowdownforrose(放慢脚步); 2011-10-16 (#6989559@0)

还是要听和说多下功夫。多谢回答。 -besideu(身边一破脑袋); 2011-10-17 (#6990918@0)

周六晚上，孩子已睡，闲来无事，胡试一回： -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-15 {556} (#6989224@0)
(这是谁写的？当时TA母亲还在世？)

Ever since I started to read, I had wanted to write about my mother's bitter life, but had never had time. The detail had become obscure as time went by, and I didn't want to ask Mom and remind her of the past. So, I am drafting it up now as the memory is still there.

The life of my mother looked to have been doomed full of tears and suffering, even before she was born. She never saw her father, and he never saw her either. Not because they had no chance to meet, but because the father never wanted to see her.

Thank you for responding! I start thinking I am talking to myself. Very straightforward style! I may borrow several things if you don’t mind. -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-16 (#6989423@0)

not at all...but i'd like to get some critiques from you and others. also to share yours if you don't mind, for mutual benefit. -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-16 (#6989478@0)

see inside. -slowdownforrose(放慢脚步); 2011-10-16 {230} (#6989507@0)
The life of my mother looked to have been doomed full of tears and suffering....

There should be a preposition between "doomed" and "full of tears".

My mother’s life seemed to have been doomed with tears and suffering.

great! thx! -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-16 {106} (#6989521@0)
i like it!

but how about:

...seemed to have been doomed, full of tears and suffering, even before...

哈，原来漏了一个逗号。好的翻译每个字都很讲究，很费脑子的。所以我一般不追求文学色彩，只求句子清楚明白，不让人读了费力，再有用词最好用这边的常用语。你翻的其它句子我一扫而过都能明白，就这句话要多看两遍。 -slowdownforrose(放慢脚步); 2011-10-16 (#6989542@0)

本来想写 doomed to be full of...，然后就简约成 doomed full of...。所以不是不小心漏的；) -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-16 (#6989565@0)

doom 是否应该改成curse? -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-16 (#6990536@0)

应该是两个意思吧？curse是人说。我认为命里注定（负面）之类意思的最好用词就是doomed...回头再看还是喜欢放慢脚步的doomed with... -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-17 (#6990933@0)

不是的...curse有命里注定的意思...doom一般有死的意思... -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-17 (#6992261@0)

请允许我掉一下书袋，搬一回字典： -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-17 {558} (#6992601@0)
curse跟这里相关的意思是harm, abuse, negatively affect.
而doom的主要意思之一是：to destine, especially to an adverse fate.

网上随手可捡很多例子：

Ottawa is cursed with tall buildings. (harmed，糟蹋)
I am doomed with acne. I have pimples all over my face (unescapable，命里注定，无法逃脱)

If the cursed becomes cursed again, it becomes the doomed.

我的总结是：The doomed is something/someone that is constantly cursed.

就好比说一件事或人死定了，并不一定说真是死亡了。而是只有一个（坏）结果。

所以"注定(坏的命运)"的意思应该非doom莫属。；）

关于你的两个例子，我的理解是 -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-22 {132} (#7006989@0)
Ottawa is cursed with tall building.
意思是摆脱不了高楼的恶运。

I am doomed with acne.
意思应该是我因为摆脱不了acne, 我完蛋了。

嗯，我没见到过这些意思，简单起见，你把字典也搬出来吧。 -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-22 (#7007723@0)

有时字典查了也不知道怎么用。我先找例句，你看看Curse有没有命运的意义，一般是坏运 -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-23 {325} (#7007961@0)
A Hollywood hairdresser, Abigail believes her life has been cursed since the day she was born -- Friday the 13th.Always unlucky in love...

找了一个doom的例子，看看有没有It' over, you are finished 意思。
Max: Hey Bobby! Did you clean your room?
Bobby: No
Max: You are doomed! Mom is on her way up stairs to check on it.

不能因为这个就不靠字典、自己造义吧？；）网上有很多权威字典包括Webster等。多查几家，答案很明确。 -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-24 {384} (#7011437@0)
curse（动词）跟这里最接近的意思只有一个，“诅咒”：
to utter a wish of evil against one;
to call for mischief or injury to fall upon.

doom（动词）的主要意思之一是“命里注定（坏结局）”：
to fix irrevocably the destiny or fate of;
make certain of the failure or destruction of.

参考网上字典：

www.dictionary.com
www.merriam-webster.com
www.websters-online-dictionary.org

嘿嘿...看来我们要较真一回。 -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-25 {1557} (#7012851@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛你说的对的，curse是诅咒的意思。但是用词，我很多时候凭感觉。可能对或不对。不过很多时候读了上下文可能意义有所不同。

我查了一下字典
cursed with - having the misfortune to have
例句： She's cursed with a troublesome mother-in-law.

用在这里我的理由是“似乎从她出生前就已注定是磨难重重，满腔苦水，以泪洗面”，全是misfortune，我用“seem like she is cursed", 用"好像是被诅咒过了一样"来表达命运的不公，和无法摆脱的苦命。我的理解和命里注定的意思一样，只是表达命里注定的噩运。

doom
n
1. death or a terrible fate
2. a judgment or decision
3. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) (sometimes capital) another term for the Last Judgment
vb
(tr) to destine or condemn to death or a terrible fate

n.
1. Inevitable destruction or ruin.
2. Fate, especially a tragic or ruinous one.
3. A decision or judgment, especially an official condemnation to a severe penalty.
4. Judgment Day.
5. A statute or ordinance, especially one in force in Anglo-Saxon England.
tr.v. doomed, doom·ing, dooms
1. To condemn to ruination or death. See Synonyms at condemn.
2. To destine to an unhappy end.

你有没有注意到doom都和end,death,judgement day，连在一起。意思是it's over, the end, finished.，都是有结束的意思。

You are doomed. 意思是你死定了。当然也可以翻译成你命中注定要死了。
We are doomed since the day we were born。意思是人生终有一死。
I Am Doomed to a Lonely Unhealthy Life。我会以孤独，不健康的一生而告终。

我觉的好像不太合适在这个翻译中用。当然字典里有fate的意思，只是在用法上很少这样用。所以我说有时查了字典也不知道该咋用。：）更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

从你我的引用都能看到，doom就是destined to a fixed fate，而不仅仅是ended with a fate。"I Am Doomed to a Lonely Unhealthy Life”的意思是："我命里注定要过孤独多病的一生"，而不是" 我会以孤独，不健康的一生而告终“。 -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-25 (#7013210@0)

嗯，也有道理。只是这个词总给我一种finished感觉。而楼主用的predetermined，我也有疑问，predetermined by whom? 看来还要斟酌斟酌。：） -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-25 (#7013251@0)

当然有finished的感觉，也就是说无法改变或翻案了，被judge完，定死了。但不是说真正的死亡。 -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-25 (#7013268@0)

还有一个感觉好像一般人喜欢用I am doomed....很少说别人doomed...用在you are doomed上下文了，一般是开玩笑。不知道这个感觉对不对。 -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-25 (#7013285@0)

我也认为它是个相当重的负面词，用于客观事实阐述（也许口语有夸大）时并没有贬低某人之意。 -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-25 (#7013315@0)

My thoughts on your version. You will see mine on next Saturday. -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-17 {1152} (#6990900@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛这是谁写的？当时TA母亲还在世？)
My sister wrote this. My mother is still with us.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

1. “bitter” is an understatement for “苦难”.

2. I like your choice of word: obscure

3. “remind her of the past” is not really catching the Chinese meaning.

4. I like “the memory is still there”, simple, straightforward, down to earth!

5. “doom” would not be my choice. It does not sync with me because it emphasizes on physically total destruction and ruinous end.

6. I think the writer emphasized on “并非生离死别”for a reason. It should be also properly emphasized in your translation, which is missing.

7. There is more meaning of“做父亲的” than a simple “the father”. It deduces what a father really means: his responsibility, honour, masculine manhood.

8. Over all, you used quite fewer words in your translation which is the goal I truly want to reach. I appreciate that you took some time translating it. I would like to wait several more days and see some more versions before I put myself on a chopping board. You will see my unaltered version.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

嗯，很好。不过有许多不尽同意。过一周我再来看你的版本把。。。哦，我差点往鲁迅身上想了，你姐姐中文很好，言简意赅。是作家吗？ -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-17 (#6990934@0)

She is not a writer. Actually, it is her first time ever writing anything. I think she truly feels for my mother which has turned her motivation into a real passion. When you have a passion, your writing will fly. -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-18 (#6993458@0)

Excellent. Can anyone help answer the question upstairs? -slowdownforrose(放慢脚步); 2011-10-16 (#6989486@0)

这儿有好的，可别给我戴高帽啊。。。 -thornthorn($oOHoly MolyOo$); 2011-10-16 {517} (#6989568@0)
“Self-literate, the suffering on the mother's life would like to write down, but have not have time. Over time, forget the many details, but did not dare ask for fear renewed the broken-hearted mother. So while there is still memory, do a grass in mind.
Mother's life, it seems that the former had been destined from her birth is suffering heavily, filled with murder, in tears. She had never seen his father, he has never seen her. Not to death, but because the father never thought see”

BY GOOGLE TRANSLATE

你就搞笑吧，不过里头有几个词到可以借鉴借鉴。 -slowdownforrose(放慢脚步); 2011-10-16 (#6989577@0)

比如 over time. -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-16 (#6989591@0)

Ha...ha...ha... come on, you can do better than this. For this, I think I deserve a little of your time for a translation. -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-17 (#6990878@0)

Don't look around. Why don't you post your translation? You certainly can contribute and teach us one thing or two. -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-17 (#6990873@0)

I meant besideu's question. -slowdownforrose(放慢脚步); 2011-10-17 (#6992778@0)

Here is my translation. Any comments on any aspects are welcomed here. -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-22 {1157} (#7006610@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛自我认字起，就很想将母亲苦难的一生写下来，却一直没得时间。时间久了，忘记了许多细节，却不敢去问，怕再度引起母亲的伤怀。所以趁现在还存有记忆，先做一个草记。

Since I knew how to read, I have always been longing to put down in paper my mother's grieving and turbulent life. I have never had a chance to do so until I realized that many details are slipping away with the fleeing time. I don’t like poking and digging in her sad past, fearing that it might drag out more unhappy memories, as a result of which I only make a sketch on what I still remember for now.

母亲一生，似乎从她出生前就已注定是磨难重重，满腔苦水，以泪洗面。她从未见过自己的父亲，他也没见过她。并非生离死别，而是因为做父亲的从来也没想见她。

It seemed that my mother’s fate was predetermined even before she was born: endless predicament, unbearable tribulation and a perpetually tearful face…

My mother never saw her father and neither did he her. It wasn’t a cliché that there was a mortal disease or an uncontrollable peril that made it impossible for them to see each other. Being a father, he never gave a scintilla of thought about her, much less desire to see her.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

see inside. -slowdownforrose(放慢脚步); 2011-10-22 {519} (#7006888@0)
用词的亲疏还可以再把握一下,比如对自己最亲近的妈妈,我是不会用poking and digging.语法和句子的结构也有点问题, 比如最后一句Being a father, he never gave a scintilla of thought about her, much less desire to see her. 这用逗号隔开的much less desire to see her和前面半句连不上,也许用let alone any desire to see her 或 nor any desire to see her 同时把前面的gave换成had会好些 . 有时在这上面想太多, 修辞太过,反倒影响了整个意思的流畅表达.

喜欢这句” It seemed that my mother’s fate was predetermined even before she was born”

Thank you -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-25 {855} (#7011927@0)
用词的亲疏还可以再把握一下,比如对自己最亲近的妈妈,我是不会用poking and digging.

“Poking and digging” were replaced with another word, but not for the reason you gave. They are neutral in meaning and emphasizing on the great effort that would be needed for getting information from my reluctant mother. Literally, they don’t mean anything disrespectful or offensive. However, they are wordy and a bit of overdone.

语法和句子的结构也有点问题, 比如最后一句Being a father, he never gave a scintilla of thought about her, much less desire to see her. 这用逗号隔开的much less desire to see her和前面半句连不上,也许用let alone any desire to see her 或 nor any desire to see her 同时把前面的gave换成had会好些 .

Sharp eyes! It is an error. Thank you. “gave” should be “had”

有时在这上面想太多, 修辞太过,反倒影响了整个意思的流畅表达.
Agree !

你的风格和原文的完全不同么。我个人喜欢grieving和no desire。 -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-22 (#7007696@0)

Would you care elaborating on it? -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-25 (#7011928@0)

你的发挥较多，而忠于原文不够。当然可以说这只是每人的风格而已。。。你用的那两个字比我的bitter和didn't want要好! -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-25 (#7013234@0)

我也试试，希望点评 -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-22 {622} (#7006961@0)
Since I can read, I have always wanted to write about my mother,yet to quite have found the time to do so. It has been a long time since, my memory starts to fade, many details have been slipping away......I did't want to ask my mother, fearing that she might have to feel the pain once again when reliving the past. Therefore I can't wait any longer before nothing left in my memory, I start to write it down.

It seems like my mother's life was cursed with great difficulty, suffering and tears even before her birth. She never met her father, it wasn't anything, simply because he never had the desire to see her.

第一句省略了一个关键意思。cursed 绝对不正确，fate 最好。Eric 的翻译有点wordy，但是气氛意思都不错。 -wincity(红卫兵); 2011-10-22 (#7007027@0)

谢谢！ -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-22 {366} (#7007101@0)
请问第一句漏的词是my mother's life instead of my mother?如果是，我是有意漏的。我觉得如果加上，感觉有点重复。如果不是，请指点一下。

Cursed 词的理解，我可能不对。我一直觉得如果是恶运，一般用cursed更能表达对命运的不公不满。不过这句读起来确实不通。我改一改试试。
It seems like my mother's life was cursed even before her birth, a life filled with misery and tears.

你漏掉了“苦难的一生”，太关键了。 -wincity(红卫兵); 2011-10-22 (#7007170@0)

Ok,不过这个确实是我故意漏的。我觉得后面第二段就要写这个的，反反复复写，感觉很重复。中文读起来顺，写成英文好像读起来显得啰嗦，是我个人的感觉，不过主要还是看读者的反馈。谢谢指点。 -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-22 (#7007195@0)

苦难是主题，重复主题是一种很有效的修辞，应该的，你听听交响乐里都是这样。再说第一句开门见山，太重要了，我觉得不能省。 -wincity(红卫兵); 2011-10-22 (#7007603@0)

since i can read时态不对，而且可以理解成“因为我可以。。。” -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-22 (#7007710@0)

你说的很对，意义上有异议。可不可以改成...Ever since I learned to read... -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-23 (#7007942@0)

learned用得好。 -hsl(胡司令); 2011-10-24 (#7011409@0)

Thank you! I would like to borrow your "relive". But I need to see how it would change the whole structure. -eric_2003(Wine Expert); 2011-10-25 {837} (#7011932@0)
1. “Since I can read, I have always wanted to write about my mother,yet to quite have found the time to do so.”
“quite” is meaningless.

2. “ It has been a long time since, my memory starts to fade, many details have been slipping away......”
Meaning is confusing. “Fade” and “slipping away” are redundant. In English, it is “…”

3. “I did't want to ask my mother, fearing that she might have to feel the pain once again when reliving the past.”
Why use past tense for “didn’t”? It would be better to change “when reliving” to “and relive”. And “relive the past” should be before the “feel the pain”. “Relive” is a quite nice choice in your version.

4. “curse” should not be used here. It is used mostly in a derogatory way.

5. “it wasn't anything”. Can’t figure out what this means.

Thank you for your comments and corrections, feel free to use anything works for you. -jesse_dd(紫飞鱼); 2011-10-25 {1508} (#7012691@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1. “Since I can read, I have always wanted to write about my mother,yet to quite have found the time to do so.”
“quite” is meaningless.

I agree. It should be removed.

2. “ It has been a long time since, my memory starts to fade, many details have been slipping away......”
Meaning is confusing. “Fade” and “slipping away” are redundant. In English, it is “…”

I didn't know how to describe it in a more concise way. May I change this to "Many details starts to fade from my memory..."?

3. “I did't want to ask my mother, fearing that she might have to feel the pain once again when reliving the past.”
Why use past tense for “didn’t”? It would be better to change “when reliving” to “and relive”. And “relive the past” should be before the “feel the pain”. “Relive” is a quite nice choice in your version.

This is an excellent correction. That sounds much better.

4. “curse” should not be used here. It is used mostly in a derogatory way.

I have some reservation for this word. Sometimes "curse" only means bad luck, it doesn't mean anything bad about that person or he/she deserve the ill fate. I am open to use other word, just I can't find a suitable one. For some reason "doom" or "predetermined" doesn't sound quite right here to me.

5. “it wasn't anything”. Can’t figure out what this means.

I think I missed something here, it should be " It wasn't because of death or anything, he simply had no desire to see her."更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

@USA

Thank you

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